γιαγια αρκουδα
07-05-2009, 13:27
BMW HELLAS – ΓΙΑΓΙΑ ΑΡΚΟΥΔΑ 0-2
Το πρώτο ημίχρονο του αγώνα έλιξε με σκορ 2-0 υπέρ μου το πρώτο γκολ μπήκε όταν αναγκαστήκαν να ανοίξουν το διαφορικό για να το επισκευάσουν και λόγο του ότι η επισκευή ήταν του κ*λου σκοράρισα πάλι με την βοήθεια της BMW Γερμανίας που τους τα έχωσε και μου άλλαξαν όλο το διαφορικό με καινούριο.
Θα σας ποστάρω ένα από τα ημεηλ που επικοινώνησα με την Γερμανία και θα σας πω αυτό για να το βάλετε καλά στο μυαλό σας…..
Όσοι αγαπάτε αυτήν την εταιρία και είστε τρελαμένοι με την BMW το καλύτερο που έχετε να κάνετε είναι να στέλνετε στην Γερμανία ημεηλ με το πρόβλημα σας και να αναφέρετε με ποιον μιλήσατε και τι έγινε όπως έκανα και εγώ. Όπως έμαθα λόγο των πολλών προβλημάτων που παρουσιάζουν οι μοτοσικλέτες αλλά και τα αυτοκίνητα η BMW είχε αφήσει το ελεύθερο στην κατατοπους αντιπροσωπείες να το χειριστούν το θέμα . σε όλον τον κόσμο αντιμετωπιστήκαν τα προβλήματα ,εκτός από την Ελλάδα . αυτό που συμβαίνει στην Ελλάδα είναι ότι έχουν για …… κάποιους λόγους , μπει ακατάλληλα άτομα σε θέσεις κλειδιά . αυτοί λόγο του ότι δεν παίρνουν πριμ από το ανταλλακτικό που αλλάζετε εντος εγγυήσεως αλλά μόνο από τα ανταλλακτικά που πωλούνταν προσπαθούν να περάσουν ότι φταίει ο πελάτης και όχι η μηχανή. Με αυτόν τον τρόπο μας φτάνουν σε σημείο να αγανακτήσουμε και να λέμε << φέρε να το πληρώσω να τελειώνουμε>> βγάζοντας το ανάλογο πριμ. αυτά τα άτομα για να γίνει η BMW HELLAS αντιπροσωπεία ανάλογη με των άλλων ευρωπαϊκών κρατών πρέπει να απομακρυνθούν από τις θέσεις που κατέχουν. Όποτε στέλνετε ημεηλ στην γερμάνια με το πρόβλημα σας με ποιον μιλήσατε και τι σας είπε και μην κ*λώνετε.
Σε λίγες ήμερες αρχίζει το δεύτερο ημίχρονο για εμένα .
Το ημίχρονο αυτό θα είναι μακροχρόνιο και θα έχει τα έξεις σκέλη.
1) μύωση αγοραστικής άξιας στο ποσό των 15000 ευρώ που τιμόταν το 2007 σαν μεταχειρισμένη, από 25500 που αγοραστικε λόγο των προβλημάτων που παρουσίασε
2) αποζημίωση των εξόδων που έκανα όλο αυτό το χρονικό διάστημα.
3) Διαφυγόντα κέρδη την επιχείρησης μου. Το όχημα χρησιμοποιείτε για την προβολή και επικοινωνία της επιχηρισης μου στην επαρχεία.
4) Αποζημίωση σε πόσο ύψους χχχχχχ για λόγους υγείας που προκλήθηκαν από το γεγονός.
5) Αποζημίωση υπέρ δημοσίου για την κυκλοφορία επικινδύνου οχήματος προς το κοινό.( ο δικηγόρος μου το ανέφερε με νομικούς όρους τους οποίους δεν τους καταλαβαίνω αλλά είναι για το ότι μπορούσε να προκληθεί ατύχημα στους άλλους αν πάθαινα βλάβη την ώρα που κινιόμουνα)
6) Και κάτι αλλά ακαταλαβίστικα για εμένα νομικά….
Και να δούμε τώρα αν θα μπορέσουν να αμφισβητήσουν τα δικά τους έγραφα που λένε το τι μου έχουν αλλάξει. Τι θα πουν ότι μου τα άλλαξαν γιατί ήμουν όμορφος?
Το τελευταίο γράμμα στην γερμάνια ήταν αυτό
George Roussos
23, Rimini St .
Nea Philadelpheia
13 456
Athens
Greece
00306977290361
2 apr 2009
To BMW Germany/Customers After Sale Service
Dear Sirs.
Firstly I would like to thank you for your actions to address my problem regardless the long period of time it took you .
BMW Hellas after receiving your letter, called me and asked me το take the bike to an indicated workshop in order to check and repair the problem of the differential subsystem.
Unfortunately even after this attempt the problem remains unsolved. I assume that the results were so poor due to the inexperience of the technicians here in Greece or perhaps because of the high cost of repair for BMW Hellas.
In my opinion the problem still remains largely because the repair was made in part and not by replacing the entire transmission subsystem.
Let me describe you in details the sequence of the events regarding the so called “repair”.
On September the 3rd , 2008, I received a call at my cell phone by Mr ANITSELIS, who mentioned that he had received a complain letter by BMW Germany (one of the many Iʼd sent to you) informing him about the problem and ask him to collaborate with me in order to find a solution to it.
We arranged to take my bike for the necessary checks to an authorized by the BMW HELLAS workshop, on Thursday the 12th. He suggested the workshop of Mr VAGIANELISʼ at Vouliagmenis avenue , Athens .
When I arrived there on Thursday, I found present Mr. ANITSELIS who claimed that he was not aware that my bike had a problem again. His knowledge was that the old problem had been repaired.
I felt very insulted by that allegation. Mr ANITSELIS obviously thought that I was somehow retarded and was trying to convince me that he did not know.
How is that possible after all these telephone conversations we had, with both Mr ANITSELIS and Mr Bra, the emails to the BMW HELLAS and correspondence through our legal representatives and extra-judicial documents through I sent my reply?
Mr ANITSELIS was fully informed and aware about my bikeʼs condition and the fact that my bike was faulty since the very first day that I bought it.
Afterwards a technician named Nikos took my bike for a test ride. Right after the test ride he stated that he could not hear anything strange from the bike. That moment it became obviously to me that most probably he had been instructed “not to hear anything”.
After a strong reaction from my side to his statement, he said that he would change the differential oil and will give it another try.
During the oil change the technician told me that he found some scraps in the oil. He stated that the quantity of the scraps was more than it should be, but it was reasonable after so many kilometres have done (16800) and that should I have changed them.
I became furious because I do not believe that a 25,000 euros worthy motorcycle should create scraps to the differential after only 1800 kilometres from the last oil change (at 15,000).
Especially after having four times at my own expenses changed the differential oil (at 1000 - 5000 - 10000 – 15000) as it is shown at the related invoices. This claim makes me wonder if at 50,000 kilometres my bike will still have a differential or it will be eaten by that time?
The technician took the bike for another test ride and miraculously heard the noise and as I said even louder when the bike turns to the right.
A new appointment was arranged for the 18th of September, in order to open and repair the bikeʼs faulty subsystem.
My personal diagnosis although I am not a professional motorbike technician is that some bearing had been corroded and as itʼs rotating is making contact with a metallic part and as a result it makes this noise.
But in spite of the above mentioned facts; the magician - doctor - miracle-worker Mr. Bra, had a different diagnosis from his office chair. He claimed that the motorcycle had no problem at all and that the problem was mine and psychological in nature and I should overcome from it.
This claiming of accusing everyone else but him self who complain about problems, seems to be Mr Braʼs habit as I learned in meetings with other BMW owners who have similar problems. It is a standard practice to blame the drivers and never to admit that motorcycles can be faulty in some rear cases.
On September the 18th , the bike was delivered to Mr Vagianelisʼ workshop to be repaired.
Same afternoon I was informed by phone that the motorcycle was ready and I could pass by the workshop to pick it.
Upon my arrival to the workshop the above mentioned technician Mr Nikos presented me two bearings from the differential subsystem which had been damaged and in fact one of them was difficult to rotate. Both replaced by the technician Mr Nikos. The following are the respective part numbers:
1) 33127663482
2) 33121242210
3) 33121451188
As you may understand these damaged parts are a solid proof that all this time that I was complaining about a faulty transmission I was right.
I wonder what Mr Bra would have to say about this since according to his opinion the problem of my bike was only in my head.
If so then what are these damaged bearings? Did I get them out of my head too? Or I was right from the beginning that my motorcycle had a problem from the very first day that I bought it?
I find his attitude and behaviour very insulting towards me and I reserve all my rights for further actions against him.
It makes me wonder why a firm like BMW demonstrates such a behaviour towards a customer who was very satisfied till now.
Why it should take so much time for a proper check on my bike with a result of other parts of the motorcycle to be wearied out?
Why I had to put on hazard my safety and the safety of other drivers who could be involved in an accident with me?
Why you people give permission for a vehicle which is dangerous for the safety of the public to be driven due to the incompetence of your employees?
After this development I thought that finally my ordeal had come to an end. Wishful thinking though!! That was not the case at all!!
I took the bike for a test ride. In the first kilometres in the city at a speed of 50 km I could not hear any noise and I was quite happy. I received a phone call from the technician Mr Nikos asking about the bike.
I thanked him and mentioned that I could not hear anything till that moment at the speed of 50 kph, but I should take the bike for a ride outside the city in order to increase the driving speed and afterwards I would give him an final answer.
Next morning I took the bike for a test ride on the nearest motorway. Unfortunately just when the speed exceed 100 kilometres per hour the noise reoccurred as strong and intense as before , this time not over 50kph but over 100kph and getting louder and stronger as the speed increased.
I called the technician at Mr Vagianelis and informed him about the results of the test ride.
Initially he tried to blame the tires as Mr Panagiotopoulos did in the past when he checked the bike for the very first time. After the replacement of the tires that claim was proven nothing but a fairy tale. I would never accept this ridiculous justification and I told him so.
When Mr Nikos realised that I was not wiling to buy that ridiculous explanation he tried to keep my sweet by telling me that from our acquaintance in the workshop he realised that even though I was a plumber I wasnʼt irrelevant from motorcycles and I have enough knowledge about them.
Then he mentioned that it happens some differential subsystems to be noisy from the factory construction.
To my question if “there are also differential subsystems that happens so quickly wear and scraps and does that make any sense ?” not received a reply.
After this conversation I realised that there was no chance to reach a solution with these people and I decided to write this letter.
Taking in to consideration all the above mentioned as well as my first letter of complaint to you I would like to express my disappointment from your representatives in BMW Hellas and willing to keep my good faith to BMW Germany I would suggest the following solutions in order to resolve the problem:
a) Provide me with an address in Germany to deliver the motorcycle there in order to be repaired at your expenses , because I believe that BMW Hellas either does lack competence or donʼt want to repair my motorcycle.
b) An experienced technician from your offices in Germany to be send here in Athens at your expenses to check and repair my motorcycle.
I look forward to hearing from you and to a resolution of this problem. I will wait for three weeks from now for an answer.
If not I will continue asking the court to replace the faulty motorcycle and the moral and material compensation required by BMW.
This letter as and other emails Iʼve sent you and the replies Iʼve received so far from you and BMW HELLAS, will be posted on the internet forums for motorcycle riders information.
Yours faithfully
George Roussos
οσοι εχετε προβληματα με bmw εδω θα σας βαλω ολλα τα ημεηλ που επικεινωνουσα με την γερμανια. σιγα σιγα θα τα βαλω ολλα...
bmwgroup.customerservice@bmwgroup.com
Το πρώτο ημίχρονο του αγώνα έλιξε με σκορ 2-0 υπέρ μου το πρώτο γκολ μπήκε όταν αναγκαστήκαν να ανοίξουν το διαφορικό για να το επισκευάσουν και λόγο του ότι η επισκευή ήταν του κ*λου σκοράρισα πάλι με την βοήθεια της BMW Γερμανίας που τους τα έχωσε και μου άλλαξαν όλο το διαφορικό με καινούριο.
Θα σας ποστάρω ένα από τα ημεηλ που επικοινώνησα με την Γερμανία και θα σας πω αυτό για να το βάλετε καλά στο μυαλό σας…..
Όσοι αγαπάτε αυτήν την εταιρία και είστε τρελαμένοι με την BMW το καλύτερο που έχετε να κάνετε είναι να στέλνετε στην Γερμανία ημεηλ με το πρόβλημα σας και να αναφέρετε με ποιον μιλήσατε και τι έγινε όπως έκανα και εγώ. Όπως έμαθα λόγο των πολλών προβλημάτων που παρουσιάζουν οι μοτοσικλέτες αλλά και τα αυτοκίνητα η BMW είχε αφήσει το ελεύθερο στην κατατοπους αντιπροσωπείες να το χειριστούν το θέμα . σε όλον τον κόσμο αντιμετωπιστήκαν τα προβλήματα ,εκτός από την Ελλάδα . αυτό που συμβαίνει στην Ελλάδα είναι ότι έχουν για …… κάποιους λόγους , μπει ακατάλληλα άτομα σε θέσεις κλειδιά . αυτοί λόγο του ότι δεν παίρνουν πριμ από το ανταλλακτικό που αλλάζετε εντος εγγυήσεως αλλά μόνο από τα ανταλλακτικά που πωλούνταν προσπαθούν να περάσουν ότι φταίει ο πελάτης και όχι η μηχανή. Με αυτόν τον τρόπο μας φτάνουν σε σημείο να αγανακτήσουμε και να λέμε << φέρε να το πληρώσω να τελειώνουμε>> βγάζοντας το ανάλογο πριμ. αυτά τα άτομα για να γίνει η BMW HELLAS αντιπροσωπεία ανάλογη με των άλλων ευρωπαϊκών κρατών πρέπει να απομακρυνθούν από τις θέσεις που κατέχουν. Όποτε στέλνετε ημεηλ στην γερμάνια με το πρόβλημα σας με ποιον μιλήσατε και τι σας είπε και μην κ*λώνετε.
Σε λίγες ήμερες αρχίζει το δεύτερο ημίχρονο για εμένα .
Το ημίχρονο αυτό θα είναι μακροχρόνιο και θα έχει τα έξεις σκέλη.
1) μύωση αγοραστικής άξιας στο ποσό των 15000 ευρώ που τιμόταν το 2007 σαν μεταχειρισμένη, από 25500 που αγοραστικε λόγο των προβλημάτων που παρουσίασε
2) αποζημίωση των εξόδων που έκανα όλο αυτό το χρονικό διάστημα.
3) Διαφυγόντα κέρδη την επιχείρησης μου. Το όχημα χρησιμοποιείτε για την προβολή και επικοινωνία της επιχηρισης μου στην επαρχεία.
4) Αποζημίωση σε πόσο ύψους χχχχχχ για λόγους υγείας που προκλήθηκαν από το γεγονός.
5) Αποζημίωση υπέρ δημοσίου για την κυκλοφορία επικινδύνου οχήματος προς το κοινό.( ο δικηγόρος μου το ανέφερε με νομικούς όρους τους οποίους δεν τους καταλαβαίνω αλλά είναι για το ότι μπορούσε να προκληθεί ατύχημα στους άλλους αν πάθαινα βλάβη την ώρα που κινιόμουνα)
6) Και κάτι αλλά ακαταλαβίστικα για εμένα νομικά….
Και να δούμε τώρα αν θα μπορέσουν να αμφισβητήσουν τα δικά τους έγραφα που λένε το τι μου έχουν αλλάξει. Τι θα πουν ότι μου τα άλλαξαν γιατί ήμουν όμορφος?
Το τελευταίο γράμμα στην γερμάνια ήταν αυτό
George Roussos
23, Rimini St .
Nea Philadelpheia
13 456
Athens
Greece
00306977290361
2 apr 2009
To BMW Germany/Customers After Sale Service
Dear Sirs.
Firstly I would like to thank you for your actions to address my problem regardless the long period of time it took you .
BMW Hellas after receiving your letter, called me and asked me το take the bike to an indicated workshop in order to check and repair the problem of the differential subsystem.
Unfortunately even after this attempt the problem remains unsolved. I assume that the results were so poor due to the inexperience of the technicians here in Greece or perhaps because of the high cost of repair for BMW Hellas.
In my opinion the problem still remains largely because the repair was made in part and not by replacing the entire transmission subsystem.
Let me describe you in details the sequence of the events regarding the so called “repair”.
On September the 3rd , 2008, I received a call at my cell phone by Mr ANITSELIS, who mentioned that he had received a complain letter by BMW Germany (one of the many Iʼd sent to you) informing him about the problem and ask him to collaborate with me in order to find a solution to it.
We arranged to take my bike for the necessary checks to an authorized by the BMW HELLAS workshop, on Thursday the 12th. He suggested the workshop of Mr VAGIANELISʼ at Vouliagmenis avenue , Athens .
When I arrived there on Thursday, I found present Mr. ANITSELIS who claimed that he was not aware that my bike had a problem again. His knowledge was that the old problem had been repaired.
I felt very insulted by that allegation. Mr ANITSELIS obviously thought that I was somehow retarded and was trying to convince me that he did not know.
How is that possible after all these telephone conversations we had, with both Mr ANITSELIS and Mr Bra, the emails to the BMW HELLAS and correspondence through our legal representatives and extra-judicial documents through I sent my reply?
Mr ANITSELIS was fully informed and aware about my bikeʼs condition and the fact that my bike was faulty since the very first day that I bought it.
Afterwards a technician named Nikos took my bike for a test ride. Right after the test ride he stated that he could not hear anything strange from the bike. That moment it became obviously to me that most probably he had been instructed “not to hear anything”.
After a strong reaction from my side to his statement, he said that he would change the differential oil and will give it another try.
During the oil change the technician told me that he found some scraps in the oil. He stated that the quantity of the scraps was more than it should be, but it was reasonable after so many kilometres have done (16800) and that should I have changed them.
I became furious because I do not believe that a 25,000 euros worthy motorcycle should create scraps to the differential after only 1800 kilometres from the last oil change (at 15,000).
Especially after having four times at my own expenses changed the differential oil (at 1000 - 5000 - 10000 – 15000) as it is shown at the related invoices. This claim makes me wonder if at 50,000 kilometres my bike will still have a differential or it will be eaten by that time?
The technician took the bike for another test ride and miraculously heard the noise and as I said even louder when the bike turns to the right.
A new appointment was arranged for the 18th of September, in order to open and repair the bikeʼs faulty subsystem.
My personal diagnosis although I am not a professional motorbike technician is that some bearing had been corroded and as itʼs rotating is making contact with a metallic part and as a result it makes this noise.
But in spite of the above mentioned facts; the magician - doctor - miracle-worker Mr. Bra, had a different diagnosis from his office chair. He claimed that the motorcycle had no problem at all and that the problem was mine and psychological in nature and I should overcome from it.
This claiming of accusing everyone else but him self who complain about problems, seems to be Mr Braʼs habit as I learned in meetings with other BMW owners who have similar problems. It is a standard practice to blame the drivers and never to admit that motorcycles can be faulty in some rear cases.
On September the 18th , the bike was delivered to Mr Vagianelisʼ workshop to be repaired.
Same afternoon I was informed by phone that the motorcycle was ready and I could pass by the workshop to pick it.
Upon my arrival to the workshop the above mentioned technician Mr Nikos presented me two bearings from the differential subsystem which had been damaged and in fact one of them was difficult to rotate. Both replaced by the technician Mr Nikos. The following are the respective part numbers:
1) 33127663482
2) 33121242210
3) 33121451188
As you may understand these damaged parts are a solid proof that all this time that I was complaining about a faulty transmission I was right.
I wonder what Mr Bra would have to say about this since according to his opinion the problem of my bike was only in my head.
If so then what are these damaged bearings? Did I get them out of my head too? Or I was right from the beginning that my motorcycle had a problem from the very first day that I bought it?
I find his attitude and behaviour very insulting towards me and I reserve all my rights for further actions against him.
It makes me wonder why a firm like BMW demonstrates such a behaviour towards a customer who was very satisfied till now.
Why it should take so much time for a proper check on my bike with a result of other parts of the motorcycle to be wearied out?
Why I had to put on hazard my safety and the safety of other drivers who could be involved in an accident with me?
Why you people give permission for a vehicle which is dangerous for the safety of the public to be driven due to the incompetence of your employees?
After this development I thought that finally my ordeal had come to an end. Wishful thinking though!! That was not the case at all!!
I took the bike for a test ride. In the first kilometres in the city at a speed of 50 km I could not hear any noise and I was quite happy. I received a phone call from the technician Mr Nikos asking about the bike.
I thanked him and mentioned that I could not hear anything till that moment at the speed of 50 kph, but I should take the bike for a ride outside the city in order to increase the driving speed and afterwards I would give him an final answer.
Next morning I took the bike for a test ride on the nearest motorway. Unfortunately just when the speed exceed 100 kilometres per hour the noise reoccurred as strong and intense as before , this time not over 50kph but over 100kph and getting louder and stronger as the speed increased.
I called the technician at Mr Vagianelis and informed him about the results of the test ride.
Initially he tried to blame the tires as Mr Panagiotopoulos did in the past when he checked the bike for the very first time. After the replacement of the tires that claim was proven nothing but a fairy tale. I would never accept this ridiculous justification and I told him so.
When Mr Nikos realised that I was not wiling to buy that ridiculous explanation he tried to keep my sweet by telling me that from our acquaintance in the workshop he realised that even though I was a plumber I wasnʼt irrelevant from motorcycles and I have enough knowledge about them.
Then he mentioned that it happens some differential subsystems to be noisy from the factory construction.
To my question if “there are also differential subsystems that happens so quickly wear and scraps and does that make any sense ?” not received a reply.
After this conversation I realised that there was no chance to reach a solution with these people and I decided to write this letter.
Taking in to consideration all the above mentioned as well as my first letter of complaint to you I would like to express my disappointment from your representatives in BMW Hellas and willing to keep my good faith to BMW Germany I would suggest the following solutions in order to resolve the problem:
a) Provide me with an address in Germany to deliver the motorcycle there in order to be repaired at your expenses , because I believe that BMW Hellas either does lack competence or donʼt want to repair my motorcycle.
b) An experienced technician from your offices in Germany to be send here in Athens at your expenses to check and repair my motorcycle.
I look forward to hearing from you and to a resolution of this problem. I will wait for three weeks from now for an answer.
If not I will continue asking the court to replace the faulty motorcycle and the moral and material compensation required by BMW.
This letter as and other emails Iʼve sent you and the replies Iʼve received so far from you and BMW HELLAS, will be posted on the internet forums for motorcycle riders information.
Yours faithfully
George Roussos
οσοι εχετε προβληματα με bmw εδω θα σας βαλω ολλα τα ημεηλ που επικεινωνουσα με την γερμανια. σιγα σιγα θα τα βαλω ολλα...
bmwgroup.customerservice@bmwgroup.com